Enzo Racing Kyb Sss Fork Subtank System Reviews
Vital MX Forum QNA: Ross Maeda
This week's guest in the Vital MX forum QNA is Ross Maeda. Ross is one of the most well-known and recognizable faces in the pits due to his long-time association with KYB, plus his own suspension shop Enzo Racing. Outside of being a break guru, he's also i of the nicest and near helpful guys effectually, and has a listing of hilarious stories a few miles long.
Since he got his kickoff at KYB in 1976 (starting time every bit a examination rider, then technician, and finally an engineer), he's had a hand in almost every elevation passenger's career you lot can name off. Such every bit Bob Hannah, Roger Decoster, Mark Barnett, Jeff Emig, Jeremy McGrath, Ricky Carmichael, Chad Reed, James Stewart, Ryan Villopoto, and the list goes on-and-on. While he still works with KYB on a daily ground, he also has his own break shop known as Enzo Racing, which was started out of his garage and know holds down a solid shop in California. Exterior of his shim changing and development duties, Ross spent years racing and riding all over the globe, growing upward equally a local pro in Southern California and riding upwardly into the late 2000s, until a spinal cord injury in tardily 2009. Even with this, his honey for moto and the sport has been unshaken.
I'm lucky plenty to take worked for the Bossman himself, so I've already asked him a million and one questions... just what would you like to inquire him? Call up to bring your all-time questions, as he'll be peeking in here this calendar week to answer them. As always, go on it respectful, and ask questions that you would like in a face up-to-face coming together.
Thanks for coming to Vital Ross.
Two questions:
ane) since y'all've worked with an amazing variety of pinnacle riders, what seems to split up the ones that can give better feedback and are truly helpful in development vs the ones that can't tell a broomstick from their ProTapers?
ii) whether Pro or weekend warrior, what would be an effective manner to meliorate any rider's ability to discern what the suspension is doing and how to make changes to improve the bike? In other words, how can riders improve their sense of what's happening with the suspension while they ride?
Hey Ross, thank you for bringing your expertise to the forum.
My question is about fork subtanks. The best suspension I have e'er ridden was on a CRF 450 that y'all did for your blood brother years ago, and it had a subtank system installed.
I never see them anymore-are they notwithstanding bachelor, and do you think they tin improve the KYB SSS fork operation on foursquare border bumps? Thanks!
Hullo mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own intermission, no revalving or anything at the moment, just rebuilding, seemed like the next logical step to acquire. Do yous have whatever communication for somebody just getting into it as far as what to wait for during the rebuild and testing process?
With all the types of intermission and with all the unlike combinations of coatings you can become done at present, what is your favourite? Kashima? DLC? Ti-Nitrate?, Air or bound forks? And what would exist your ultimate break package if coin was no object and Why?
Cheers mate.
Instagram @_yabba_dabba_dont_
How-do-you-do Ross, thanks for coming on here.
With then many pros opting to run springs, do you think the air forks will die off again or do you think they're hither to stay?
Too, many on these forums and magazines say the KYB SSS forks are the holy grail, what's your opinion?
Is in that location a big advantage to running a titanium shock spring besides weight? I've noticed it seems roughly half of the factory riders run i while one-half don't? Does it really just come downward to rider preference?
Matt Fisher wrote:
Thanks for coming to Vital Ross.
Two questions:
1) since yous've worked with an amazing variety of top riders, what seems to ...moreMatt Fisher wrote:
Thank you for coming to Vital Ross.
2 questions:
i) since you lot've worked with an amazing multifariousness of top riders, what seems to separate the ones that can give better feedback and are truly helpful in evolution vs the ones that can't tell a broomstick from their ProTapers?
2) whether Pro or weekend warrior, what would exist an constructive way to meliorate any rider's power to discern what the pause is doing and how to make changes to ameliorate the bike? In other words, how can riders improve their sense of what's happening with the intermission while they ride?
ane. I've found that riders that are very sensitive to feeling break characteristics aren't always the ones with a lot of experience. Some riders just feel a lot of things when riding and others do not. I don't know if they are paying more than attention to what they are feeling than concentrating on riding fast, but some riders just accept that trait. It doesn't actually take that much to practise with their speed either, some lower level riders are able to pick up on things going on that others do not. so to answer your question, I but have to work with the passenger to observe that out.
ii. The best way to learn how to feel what their bike is doing suspension wise, is to try different adjustments and endeavour to experience what they exercise on the runway. Try different sag heights, fork tube positions, etc. I've told riders to larn what the adjustments do so that when they are betwixt motos and take a problem, they volition know whether to get 2 clicks stiffer or 10.
Ross,
Thank you for doing this. I honey reading your Facebook stories and ever get to check out the absurd things you are working on. 2 questions for you lot.
one. I see you are doing a lot with the stupor subtank. What is the purpose of the subtank and what are the adjustments for on the subtank? Will this be available to the public?
2. What is your opinion on the KYB PSF2 fork?
Thank you!
Brent wrote:
Hey Ross, give thanks you for bringing your expertise to the forum.
My question is well-nigh fork subtanks. The best suspension I have ...more
Brent wrote:
Hey Ross, thank you for bringing your expertise to the forum.
My question is nearly fork subtanks. The best break I accept ever ridden was on a CRF 450 that you did for your blood brother years ago, and it had a subtank system installed.
I never run into them anymore-are they still available, and do you think they can improve the KYB SSS fork functioning on square edge bumps? Thanks!
The role of the fork subtank system is provide a 'speed sensitive bound characteristic in the front fork. If you were to simply lower your oil level dramatically (increase your air volume), it would make the fork experience very soft and plush, just it would dive and lesser out. A higher oil level will provide improve bottoming resistance, but it volition create an overly progressive spring character and feel harsh speedily when the fork compresses. With the subtank system, it provides a large air volume but separates information technology into two chambers with a restrictive aligning between them. The idea is to run a loftier oil level in the fork, college than normal, and install the subtanks. When the fork compresses slowly, both volumes (the main oil level air volume and the subtank volume) compress giving the feeling of a low oil level (big air chamber). Simply when the fork is compressed faster, the restriction between the two chambers causes the oil level air chamber to compress more than the one in the subtank and so it gives the feeling of a high oil level. This system worked very well on the "open up bath" type fork organisation, but with the air/oil split systems like SSS, information technology is not equally constructive because the secondary damping systems prevent bottoming with damping rather than spring force. We found that if we ran a super loftier oil level in the SSS blazon fork, the secondary bottoming mechanisms (restrictive spring perches) would kick in also presently and feel harsh. So we couldn't run a super high oil level in that blazon of fork. The advantages of the subtank system but became plusher initial activeness, and not ameliorate bottoming resistance...
Hi Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions.
I've got an older steel stupor body of yours on a 2006 YZ250 2 stroke. Information technology was a 2 piece design with a steel torso / aluminum resiviour. I took it apart recently, and noticed there still was inappreciably any clothing inside the steel torso.
Is this nonetheless the hot setup versus all aluminum trunk? If and so, why don't more of the factories adopt this?
Edited Appointment/Fourth dimension:
I take talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and accept a conundrum. My suspension feels soft in the wood and potent at the motocross track. They say that it should be the contrary and that I merely demand to ride faster at the track. Just the bike is twitchy and responds violently to the motocross tracks.
I am 185lbs half-dozen'1" long arms and legs riding a 2008 yz250 with race tech intermediate motocross valving and .46 and five.iv springs 95mm sag and flush front forks. I have my clickers centered and 1.five high speed.
I experience like I demand stiffer springs and much softer compression dampening. When I reduce compression damping right now the chassis starts to wallow. Please assistance me cause I am at my wits cease.
Slosh 112 wrote:
Hullo mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own interruption, no revalving or anything at the moment, just rebuilding, ...more than
Slosh 112 wrote:
Hullo mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own break, no revalving or annihilation at the moment, just rebuilding, seemed like the next logical step to learn. Do you lot accept any advice for somebody merely getting into information technology as far as what to look for during the rebuild and testing process?
With all the types of intermission and with all the different combinations of coatings you tin can become done at present, what is your favourite? Kashima? DLC? Ti-Nitrate?, Air or bound forks? And what would exist your ultimate break package if money was no object and Why?
Thanks mate.
Rebuilding your suspension is no different than splitting the cases on your bike: the more you do it, the easier it becomes. Unfortunately, unless you piece of work in a suspension shop yous won't get that much exercise doing it because it doesn't need to exist washed that ofttimes. My advice to you is to brand sure you lot have all the proper tools and replacement parts yous demand earlier you lot become started. Attempt to keep everything clean and have your time. As far as communication for anyone starting with suspension, I always suggest testing your bicycle Earlier y'all rebuild information technology, then later it is rebuilt with clean oil and new parts, test it again to experience how much better the fresh condition of the component is. Sometimes only keeping your suspension in good working condition is overlooked before diving into heavy component modifications.
Regarding upgrade surface coatings to reduce friction, we have had the best results with Kashima coating on aluminum surfaces and DLC on steel surfaces. Personally I adopt the KYB PSF air fork merely mostly because of the wide range of tunability they take over the scroll spring fork. I was injured before I ever got to ride the latest air forks, merely I had experience with the early systems KYB produced in the seventies, and I liked them likewise. AIr spring and coil spring have advantages and disadvantages over each other, and each rider can accept their preferences, but for sure, I believe that finding the best setting with either requires some testing.
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is there really a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Manufacturing plant Connection components or, is the difference really in the service and power to dial in the interruption for the consumer/rider? Thanks for your fourth dimension!
Edited Date/Time:
colintrax wrote:
Hi Ross, thanks for coming on hither.
With so many pros opting to run springs, practice you recall the air forks will die off once again or ...morecolintrax wrote:
Howdy Ross, thanks for coming on here.
With so many pros opting to run springs, do you think the air forks will die off again or practice you recollect they're hither to stay?
Also, many on these forums and magazines say the KYB SSS forks are the holy grail, what'due south your opinion?
I cannot speak for pros on teams using SHOWA or WP, but as far as teams supported past KYB, only Republic of chad Reed, Eli Tomac and Jeremy Martin have called coil spring forks over air spring. All three of those riders chose coil spring forks for their own reasons, but all of them had good results with air forks and did not hate them. Personally I believe that the KYB PSF air fork works extremely well, and I don't run across information technology dying off for professional person racing. That said, I do personally believe that air fork systems do not belong on production bikes considering the general public is not capable or willing to do what is necessary to go the fork to work at its all-time. The average customer merely wants to ride his bicycle without doing additional maintenance. Regarding the KYB SSS fork (also chosen AOS) being "the holy grail", I believe this is only being said because of the current wave of dissatisfaction with air forks. For sure the SSS is a state of the fine art pattern for motocross front end forks, but when information technology was the only game in town, people were not singing its praises as highly! If all bikes go back to that design, it will exist met with the usual criticism that all product components get.
Edited Date/Fourth dimension:
Ross,
1. Did the KYB move to India always happen? If so, did it change annihilation in your day to day?
two. I was probably one of the few that liked the progressive springs on my '98 KX250, but all the local shops
preferred to get back to a straight charge per unit. Did you similar that setup? What prompted Kawasaki to go that route?
Thanks!
Hey cheers for taking the time to answer our questions
i have a 06 kx450 and from what i've found the forks were somewhat unique to this twelvemonth model.
So my question is would information technology be worth the money to purchase newer components or would merely upgrading what i have exist adept?
"If you experience in control, y'all're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti
mxrose3 wrote:
Hi Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions.
I've got an older steel shock trunk of yours on a 2006 YZ250 two stroke. ...moremxrose3 wrote:
Howdy Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions.
I've got an older steel shock body of yours on a 2006 YZ250 ii stroke. It was a ii slice design with a steel torso / aluminum resiviour. I took it apart recently, and noticed there notwithstanding was inappreciably whatever article of clothing inside the steel torso.
Is this still the hot setup versus all aluminum body? If so, why don't more than of the factories adopt this?
The kit daze body that y'all have really has an aluminum cylinder, not steel. The reason for the two piece design was to be able to employ "piping" material for the actual cylinder rather than a casting. THe pipe material is "denser" aluminum, probably extruded, while casting is more porous therefore expands less consistently when hot. Ohlins and WP use or utilise to apply steel for the cylinder for the improve wear characteristic. But the argument used to be that steel does not misemploy heat too as aluminum and peradventure would aggrandize more. Currently, the Japanese factories do not utilise the two slice pattern anymore because now they just machine the entire body out of billet aluminum and that material is much more consistent than casting, but very expensive!
With all the talk about from forks and airforks in item, I am interested in your idea around what is the best shock you can use? Some swear past the top of the line Ohlins shocks...thoughts?
Electric current rides: 2022 CRF450RWE
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF 1987 CR250RH
Risk/Road bike: CRF1100L
waitn4 wrote:
I accept talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and accept a conundrum. My suspension feels soft in the woods and stiff at the ...more
waitn4 wrote:
I have talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and have a puzzler. My suspension feels soft in the woods and potent at the motocross track. They say that it should be the contrary and that I just demand to ride faster at the track. Simply the bicycle is twitchy and responds violently to the motocross tracks.
I am 185lbs vi'1" long arms and legs riding a 2008 yz250 with race tech intermediate motocross valving and .46 and 5.4 springs 95mm sag and flush forepart forks. I have my clickers centered and 1.five high speed.
I feel similar I demand stiffer springs and much softer compression dampening. When I reduce pinch damping right now the chassis starts to wallow. Please assist me cause I am at my wits end.
I do non know what has been done internally to your components, and so I am not qualified to tell you what needs to exist done. All I can say is that you need to go dorsum to the technician that did your piece of work and explain to him what your bug are.
What DOING!?
TeamRags wrote:
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is there really a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Factory ...more
TeamRags wrote:
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is in that location actually a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Manufacturing plant Connection components or, is the departure really in the service and ability to dial in the suspension for the consumer/rider? Cheers for your time!
The goal of any suspension shop is to satisfy the customer with his suspension requirements. If you are referring to aftermarket COMPONENTS such every bit SHOWA or KYB kit components, both companies produce them and distribute them through dissimilar distributors. Enzo builds KYB kit components using some unlike parts than what comes on the official KYB version, and naturally we believe that they are an comeback. All iii companies yous mentioned will stand up behind their work and work with the customer to their satisfaction.
Ted722 wrote:
Ross,
i. Did the KYB move to India ever happen? If so, did it alter anything in your day to day?2. I was probably 1 of ...more
Ted722 wrote:
Ross,
1. Did the KYB move to India ever happen? If so, did it change annihilation in your day to day?two. I was probably one of the few that liked the progressive springs on my '98 KX250, simply all the local shops
preferred to become back to a straight charge per unit. Did yous like that setup? What prompted Kawasaki to become that route?Thanks!
1. KYB did not move to India. They are maybe because the thought of building a manufacturing found at that place, but I do not know.
ii. Personally I did not like the progressive spring rate set on the production '98 KX line. I felt that they allowed the fork to dive excessively. THe combination of ringlet bound and air spring (oil level air book) creates a linear spring rate then progressively climbs in the later on function of stroke. The progressive springs made the fork feel like it had a dip in the first half of travel in my opinion... I have no idea why Kawasaki chose to apply that type of leap..
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Hey thanks for taking the time to reply our questions
i accept a 06 kx450 and from what i've constitute the forks were somewhat ...more
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Hey thanks for taking the time to reply our questions
i have a 06 kx450 and from what i've institute the forks were somewhat unique to this year model.
So my question is would it be worth the coin to purchase newer components or would merely upgrading what i have be practiced?
The '06 KXF450 used a version of the AOS (SSS) damping system with different "secondary damping" arrangement. Instead of a leap perch, it used kind of a long oil lock organization in the inner tube to provide damping independent of the internal cartridge. For sure, the afterward model AOS fork worked meliorate, but if you are satisfied with the performance of your fork, I would concentrate on working with it.
I'll take this out of the technical range for a question...
Who was the passenger you were virtually nervous or worried about working with?
piggy backing off the prior^^^
who was the near difficult to piece of work with? who was the nearly enjoyable
"If yous feel in control, you're non going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti
Edited Engagement/Time:
Hey Ross, I am a big Enzo fan - funny coincidence that I just called you yesterday out of the blue (I was the ane who was looking for replacement Enzo stickers for my 2003 YZ125 that you re-valved for me like a decade ago. I still beloved the suspension on the bicycle even though information technology is very outdated/depression tech!). I also had you practice my 2006 RM250 and now my brother's 2013 YZ125 suspension is at your shop every bit we speak.
Anyway, am an automotive engineer who really likes to brand data-driven decisions, and have always struggled with the subjective nature of suspension calibration.
How much exercise you guys rely on dyno testing and simulation/ models to make improvements on interruption? As the interruption systems go more complex do you foresee at that place being an reward to this type of approach compared to track testing? I know there are uncomplicated shim-stack modeling packages out there that can help you get close, but I remember there may be some untapped potential in the 1-D and 3-D CFD realm...
John
Edited Engagement/Time:
Hi Ross, thanks for coming by to share your knowledge with the states.
My question is, how often take you lot worked with a guy that had "their" setup (i.e. a prototypical way to setup the break)? What was it like working with this type of rider? Were yous always able to get them to come around on a dissimilar setup or way of approaching the suspension?
You don't have to proper noun any names, only I've always wondered most this.
Hullo Ross, thank you for doing this. I don't have a question, I only wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years agone was one of the all-time he's washed. I know y'all've had a pretty storied career in the manufacture, but until that podcast, I had no idea just how much you've done.
Sully wrote:
Hello Ross, thanks for doing this. I don't have a question, I simply wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years ago ...more
Sully wrote:
Hello Ross, thanks for doing this. I don't have a question, I just wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years agone was one of the best he's done. I know you've had a pretty storied career in the industry, merely until that podcast, I had no idea simply how much y'all've done.
+1
Ross, I am a therapist hither in AZ that works with SCI and traumatic brain injury clients. I met yous a few years back at the USGP at Glen Helen and I am wondering what y'all do to stay active/healthy when not working? Standing frame? Stim bike?
steinkewerelf1974.blogspot.com
Source: https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Vital-MX-Forum-QNA-Ross-Maeda,1301328
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